A Song of Ice and Fire Book Club - Chapters 29-42: Dragons, Family and Lannisters

 

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It's time for another round up of A Song of Ice and Fire in our A Game of Thrones Book Club. As usual I am accompanied by our host, mithrilwisdom.com, Allison at Geek Banter and Ria at Bibliotropic.

Make sure you head on over to see their thoughts on the book so far and answers to this weeks questions.

This week we are discussing Lannisters (again), dragons and family.

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From Jamie:

 

Danaerys has grown quite bold since she was sold off to Khal Drogo, to the point where she has much less of a problem swinging for Viserys 'douchebag of the year' Targaryen. Do you think her development is down to her becoming stronger, the fact that she has a child to protect or is she getting comfortable in the safety of the khalasar?

 

Danaerys has always been dominated by her brother, who takes pleasure in reminding her of who is the 'true dragon' and heir to the Iron Throne. Since becoming part of the khalasar she has become a more important figure than her brother, earning the loyalty of some of her new companions including the khal himself. She has had to become strong to survive amongst her new people, and in so doing has realised she is far more capable than she or her brother first thought. The safety of the khalasar certainly gives her room to grow, knowing she has protection if her brother responds badly to her gentle pushing of his limits. With the seed of thought in her mind that maybe Viserys isn't the 'true dragon' after all, that only leaves her and her unborn son. The strength of a mother is a force to be reckoned with, and will only serve to increase her confidence further.

 

 

From Allison:

 

So far, I am generally pro-Stark and anti-Lannister, but in the case of Catelyn vs. Tyrion I am torn. Who do you feel allied with in their situation?

 

As much as I'm beginning to like Catelyn Stark, I am not with her in her decision to take Tyrion Lannister prisoner. I don't think he has had anything at all to do with what he has been accused of, and is being used as an easy scapegoat because he is so much more vulnerable than the other Lannisters. His physical limitations leave him open as a target, and I think Catelyn has taken the opportunity to get any vengeance she can in the name of Lannister.

I have definitely been rooting for Tyrion through his adventure as a prisoner.

 

 

From Ria:

 

It seems that the author uses a good deal of archetypes as a base for his characters. Do you feel that this weakens the story when characters are models bordering on stereotypes, or does the large cast with a diverse number of archetypes balance that out?

 

With such a large cast of characters all interacting over such a vast landscape, the level of archetypes is less important. As they progress and come into contact with each other and are presented with different situations, they have the opportunity to break from their stereotype and establish themselves as a fuller character. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in future books, with the introduction of new characters along the way.

 

 

 

 

From me:

 

What do you think of Catelyn Stark's sudden capture of Tyrion Lannister and her trek to see her crazy sister? Was it a mothers reaction seeking revenge, or a strong woman trying to do her best for the Realm?  

I think it was a split-second decision made by Catelyn to take Tyrion Lannister as her prisoner. In the Inn where she was trying to remain hidden, his unveiling of her identitiy backed her into a corner and she lashed out in response. In her thoughts she holds him and his family responsible for the attack on her son, and so it is in part a mothers instinct to want to have some revenge. Her acts are a reflection of this impulse to pay back what has been done to her family.

  

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I have enjoyed having proper time this week to sit down and get fully engrossed with the book, and the questions have been great for stretching my thoughts on what I've made of the story so far. 

 

Having discussions like this really does encourage you to think a bit more about what's being read, rather than just skimming along as I think I have done in the past. It's definitely helped in changing my reading habits and has made me enjoy the book even more.

 

Thanks you guys!

 

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A Song of Ice and Fire Book Club - Chapters 15-28: Brothers, sisters and spiders

 

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It's time for the second round up of A Song of Ice and Fire in our A Game of Thrones Book Club. Joining me is our excellent host, mithrilwisdom.com, Allison at Geek Banter and Ria at Bibliotropic.

Make sure you head on over to see their thoughts on the book so far and answers to this weeks questions.

This week we are discussing spiders, brothers and sisters ...

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From Jamie:

Littlefinger and Varys banter really well with one another; I love their back and forth as they try to outdo one another. Who do you prefer and why?

My preference is for Littlefinger, at least at this stage of the 'game'. We've seen more of his back story, and know of his history with House Stark and his particular fondness for Catelyn. To all involved he appears to be on their side, and I'm rather fond of the Starks myself so anyone who is helping them in any way is alright by me.
I do enjoy that we know so little of Varys right now, and I look forward to learning much more about him in the future. I dare say my opinion will change back and forth a few times as we make our way through the series.

From Allison:

Ned Stark seems to be a pretty honourable guy so far--he obviously cares about his family and duty is important to him. I liked the part where he gives Arya back Needle and arranges for her to have lessons. However, I can't bring myself to like him, because I have this foreboding feeling that he is going to do something terrible and make me hate him. What do you think of Ned so far?

I think Ned has a tough job to do. He's been separated from half of his family and the ones he has with him are squabbling between them. He's been asked to leave his home, and against his own wishes has to follow his king. 
On top of that he has is dealing with the small council, particularly Varys and Baelish, and it is not always clear who is to be trusted. He has walked into a kingdom that has been driven to debt by the king and his extravagances, and is expected to just bear with it and do his duty. All in all I don't think he's been dealt the best of 'hands' (he he), and is doing the best he can in a dire situation. I like him as a character, as I do the other Starks. Well, apart from Sansa that is.

From Ria:

What do you think of the situation involving how Jon turned enemies into allies on the Wall? Effective strategy, or overused Saturday-morning-cartoon plot device?

It probably is a storyline that has been used many times, and will be used again in the future, but it's one that I like. Overcoming personal conflict to come together for a greater good, what can be better than that? I particularly like this one as I think Ser Alliser Thorne is one pretty mean character. Anything the boys can do to show him up is definitely a good thing, although I'm sure he won't take it lying down.
Jon is helping himself and the others to be better men, to improve themselves and be more than what is thought of them when they arrive. I hope they all go on to do great things or the Wall.


From me:

Arya and Sansa are clearly very different personalities with very different views on the world, despite coming from the same origins.
Which do you identify with the most? Do you think the chasm building between them is becoming too great to be bridged, despite their father's efforts to keep them closer?

I identify more with Arya's character. To me, Sansa seems very fickle and weak, embracing a very girly notion of falling in love with the Prince and living happily ever after. She doesn't know anything about him, or what kind of a person he is, and even after some of his character is revealed in the incident by the river with Nymeria she still sticks by this horrid boy she wants to marry.
Arya couldn't be more different, seeing through the pointless activities that entail being a lady. She is not content with such a mundane life of what is expected of her, and wants to be more than just a girl. Arya is a much stronger character, not happy to sit and live the life that is expected of her. She knows what she wants to do, and will fight to be given more freedom.
I think it is Sansa that is drifting away from her sister, by pursuing her interest in the Prince, little realising what kind of family he comes from. The more she wants the dream of potentially being Queen, the more she will alienate Arya and the others.

Have you been reading A Game of Thrones along with us? What are your thoughts on this weeks questions?

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A Song of Ice and Fire Book Club: Chapters 1-14 - of direwolves and Lannisters

First of all, I'd like to apologise to the other members of the group for posting this a day late. Yesterday our internet connection went down (I think someone has been cutting cables, tut, tut), so this is the first opportunity I've had to get back on.

So, here we are with the first catchup of the Book Club. We are making our way steadily through the first four A Game of Thrones books in preparation for the fourth series being released next March.

The plan is to have a catchup every other Saturday, with each of us posing a question to be answered by the rest.

The brain behind the Club is Jamie, who resides at www.mithrilwisdom.com, and joining him is Allison at Geek Banter, Ria at Bibliotropic and myself.
Make sure to head on over to the others to see their thoughts too.




And now to the questions for this week:

Jamie: In the few chapters that we've seen already, Tyrion is amazing. His snark and wit mark him out as one of my favourites. Do you think his role is more the comic relief or a juxtaposition for the cruelty of his sibling Lannisters (opposites in appearance as well as personality)?

I think that his difference in physical appearance is certainly not the only way Tyrion Lannister is set apart from his siblings. In the beginning he is portrayed by his brother and sister as something less than them, referring to him as 'the Imp' and immediately placing him lower down in their eyes. As we see him apart from them though, we see that there is far more to him than they'd care to advertise, and his intellect and manner of dealing with situations marks him out as someone not to be overlooked, if you'll pardon the pun.
I think he is definitely meant to be a contrast to the cruelty and morals of the rest of his family, and at times I wonder if he is sometimes ashamed to be associated with them. He can see the benefits he has in being part of the Lannister family, not the least of which is that he has lived and grown to a man. This may be a heavy price to pay though for being tarred with the same brush.


Heather: Have you already seen the television series before reading the books? If yes, has it influenced how you read them?

I am currently half way through watching season two of the television series, and inevitably, it means I am seeing the characters in the book as the actors who play them.
This causes a little dilemma though, as the characters in the book are a little younger than they appear in the series. Robb, for example, is only 14 in the book but Richard Madden certainly looks older than this. So far the book is quite close to the series too, which means I picture it as I have seen it on the screen. This is bound to change though, when I get onto the books that are yet to be adapted.
I have to admit, when considering these questions it is hard not to bring in my knowledge from what I've seen in the series so far, and concentrate on the chapters we've read up until this point. 


Allison: What do you think the names chosen for the direwolves say about the children's personalities? And for  a silly bonus question, share what you would name yours (come on, I know you've thought about it :-P)

(and for a silly bonus question, share what you would name yours (come on, I know you've thought about it :P) - See more at: http://www.mithrilwisdom.com/#sthash.6mmMH1K0.dpuf

(and for a silly bonus question, share what you would name yours (come on, I know you've thought about it :P) - See more at: http://www.mithrilwisdom.com/#sthash.6mmMH1K0.dpuf

The names given to the direwolves by the Stark children seem to be a reflection on their own personalities and how they see themselves.
John Snow doesn't see himself as a true Stark, merely a presence among the rest of his half-siblings and so Ghost is appropriate. He believes that although he is present among the house, nobody really sees him or pays much attention.
Sansa has taken to her role of the eldest daughter, excelling in the finer details of what  being a lady entails, such as needlepoint. The name Lady for her wolf demonstrates how she sees herself.
The differences between her and Arya are obvious, with Arya showing no interest in the pursuit of being a lady, instead wanting to join her brothers in combat training. Nymeria was a warrior-queen, and so this choice of name reflects her desire to be something more than just a lady.
Shaggydog is typical for Rickon, who is still very young being only 3 years old. This name shows how literally he still sees things and how unaware he is of the greater world around him.
Grey Wind was named for his colouring and speed, a speed which Robb exhibits in his swordplay. 
Summer is the name of Bran's wolf, which we haven't learnt quite yet in this part of the book. The Stark's words are 'Winter is coming', and so Bran's choice of name could be a reflection of his optimism that although winter is coming, it will not last forever. 

If I had my own direwolf, I'd probably name it Mexico. For as long as I've been able to drive I've longed for a MkI Escort Mexico. One day I will own one, one day ...


Ria: "[...] a mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." What do you think about the veracity of Tyrion's line there, especially in a world that seems to prize physical strength more highly than intelligence?

Tyrion is well aware of his weaknesses, which centre around his physical limitations. One of the only strengths he has is his mind, and is able to talk himself out of situations that could possibly lead to a physical conflict and put his life in danger.
This in itself makes him a danger, as others with more advanced physical abilities may see his intellect as a threat. His use of words can manipulate others to his will, especially if they don't fully understand his meaning. He reads his books to understand the past and the world around him. This is his whetstone, for sharpening his mind so he can successfully maneuvre through the different peoples he comes into contact with.


I have enjoyed the questions for this catchup, and look forward to more reading and more thinking over the next couple of weeks!

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